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The biggest Czech rock/metal magazine Spark Rockový Magazín (20.000 copies) spent 2 pages on Lumsk, and got Espen W. Godø`s first interview ever.
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Your first album was based on an old saga about Asmund, while the new one is inspired by the modern writer Hamsun. Can you compare the way in which you worked with the ideas of both texts? I mean there must be some tension between ancient x modern; epic x lyric; folkloric x artificial. Isn’t it?
I remember when I first started playing with Lumsk back in 2000. I received some ideas on CD recorded in the rehearsal room with a lot of melodic ideas and riffs, mostly short parts and pieces, no vocals at all. In the beginning the focus at rehearsals were mostly based on these ideas, and we spent a lot of time developing the arrangements together. Since there wasn’t any vocalist in Lumsk who sang at the moment (there were several present at rehearsals, but in some strange way they managed to do everything but singing), we didn’t spend much time with the lyrics when we rehearsed. We did however have long coffee breaks with discussions around the songs we were working on, and where they would fit best to this and that part of the lyrics. Of course the missing-a-steady-line-up situation we had to deal with at that time had an important effect on the band, definitely a positive one I can say now, some years and tears later. I often think that it’s a bit of a miracle that we managed to gather a line-up steady enough to record our first demo, and later Åsmund Frægdegjevar.
“Det Vilde Kor” was a totally different experience. From the beginning of the composing process we had 100 percent focus on the poems, and I personally think this is quite obvious when you compare the structure of the songs from our first album to those of our new album. The fact that we had an almost-steady-line-up situation this time also made it easier to concentrate on the creative aspects of playing together, instead of the tearing and wearing of playing against each other.
You mention the tension between the concepts of these two albums. Of course this has had a huge impact on the final result of “The Vilde Kor”. I can’t in my wildest musical dreams or even nightmares imagine the sound of our first album combined with the lyrical poems of our new one. That would have been like putting sweet and sour sauce on “fårikål” (a traditional Norwegian meal, not at all suitable whit the mentioned sauce, I think). Personally I really enjoyed working with Knut Hamsun’s poems, and I have never felt (not ever) obliged to do this within a certain musical genre. Many (especially journalists) have expected us to do a folk-metal version of Hamsun’s “Det Vilde Kor”. Our intention has been, from the beginning to the end, to do a musical version of Hamsun’s poems we would be proud to present to all those interested in listening to them. And that road is also the road ahead of us. We don’t want to repeat ourselves, we don’t want others telling us what to do, and we don’t want to know what road lies ahead of us. The creative blindfolds we have put on ourselves is very inspiring, and I think it is the main reason for me to be doing this; Making music for dedicated listeners, developing ourselves as musicians and developing Lumsk as a band, and of course have fun doing it. And my idea of creative and musical development is not musical recycling. I’ve never tried it, but perhaps that’s the money-making recipe? But I can promise those interested in Lumsk that we will always do things we find interesting ourselves, both musically and lyrically. And I think people will always recognize the music as Lumsk. Even though the sound of our first and third album is quite different, the feedback from our listeners is that they can hear it is still Lumsk. I think that’s as far I can go in giving any musical promises. But what a promise that is, right? You will just have to trust our judgement, or wait for our next album if you happen to think we’re far out on one of them. (This is where the fantastic smiley fits in, right?)
It is very interesting that you did choose Hamsun`s only poetic work, while he is much more known as novelist and play writer. What was the reason of this choice? Btw, your albums are musically like a narration of a story. Is also something epic in these poems, or they are more about lyricism?
The whole idea actually started as a coincidence. Eystein was rushing through the collected works of Hamsun, and naturally stumbled over his only collection of poems. He presented the idea to the rest of us, and now you can see and hear what we thought of the idea. Also the fact that this collection is relatively unknown made it even more exciting. Unlike the first album our new album consists of separate poems. We have tried to pick poems with different themes and emotions to make the album interesting and varied. I think the songs are very lyrically this time, the poems being the main reason for this my opinion. Naturally I can’t have any idea of the listening experience people who don’t understand these poems have. Perhaps their musical and lyrical experience and their interpretation of the songs and the album as a whole are quite different from my own. I think this is quite interesting actually, and I don’t want to express too much of my personal opinion or interpretation. But this is what I can recommend: Open a bottle of something you like, close your eyes, and give the album your full attention. Repeat the process minimum five times, and send me an email of what you think. I also like the idea of listening to the album in your disc-man or whatever technology you’re carrying with you while drinking a large glass of beer at an old café in your city, Prague, looking at all the history, the people, asking yourself where it all came from and where it’s heading, what you’re doing in all this, what do you want to do in all this, is love really the answer to your question, and where can you find it, or perhaps, did you find it but closed your eyes, did it just slip through your fingers? And in the end you can ask yourself… Did it really have a purpose doing all this thinking? Did it really matter? Is there anyone who really cares? If you complete this process I think you’re one step closer to “Det Vilde Kor”. Perhaps ready to make your own… To quote Knut Hamsun: “In a hundred years everything will be forgotten…”
With no doubt, your metallic folklore or folkloric metal is full of emotions (alongside the whole epic thing). Which of the emotions expressed in your music and lyrics are the most important for you?
I guess you have heard musicians say this before, but there is a tendency that your most recent album feels and sounds a lot better than the previous ones. At least this is how I feel. When an album is released we’ve spent hours and hours working on it. Making music, rehearsing it, pre-recording it, recording it, listening to it, mastering it, even more listening to it, and rehearsing it again and so on… When the album finally is released it feels like a finished book. And what is there to do when it’s finished? Well, as a writer you do a little promotion and then you write another book.
This opinion changes all the time. But for me it’s always the latest work that feels most important right now, but as I said, that doesn’t last long. Right now I’m very happy with “Det Vilde Kor”. I think some of the emotions expressed in these poems are absolutely wonderful, and we’ve tried our best to express these through the music. And I can’t really say I have one favourite. I have several favourite moments. But it’s kind of difficult to listen to your own work. It’s the process that really matters. At least that’s how it is for me.
Unfortunately I don’t speak Norwegian, but I like very much the sound of the language, it is very “sing able”. Is this phonetic aspect of the language also important for you, do you work with it (and how)? In general – do you think that the everyday protection and propagation of the native language is necessary, or it will survive always?
Our first album is written in a very old Norwegian language, very different from the Norwegian languages today (Nynorsk and Bokmål). That of course made it very important to study the text carefully, getting help from experts where it was needed. The last album is also written in quite a different style than we have today, but it’s in many ways similar. So we didn’t have to work as hard this time with the phonetic aspect. However, since all the music this time was written directly to every poem, the lyrics sound very “musical” so to say. That is also one of the reasons we picked Hamsun’s “Det Vilde Kor”, his poems contains a lot of musicality. And I totally agree with you; they are very “singable”.
We have always wanted to sing songs in our own language. There are so few Norwegian artists who do. I have no idea why most people choose to sing in English, especially when most of them never sell records outside Norwegian borders anyway. My theory is that it’s a lot more difficult to write good Norwegian lyrics. They tend to get more personal in a way, and perhaps a lot of people are afraid of just that. It’s easier to hide a bad English lyric than it is to hide a bad Norwegian one. None of us in Lumsk has ever tried, as I’m aware of; to write any lyrics for the band. And until one of us tries, and the result turns out to be brilliant, there are a lot of Norwegian writes who have written so many fantastic poems and stories. And many of those poems and stories will sooner or later be more or less forgotten unless some of us dries the dust off them, and make them public again. So the answer to your question is yes, it is very important to do things in our native language; there is too few who do.
In the booklet of the first album, you did translate the synopsis of the Asmund story in English. Did you also translate or explain Hamsun? (I ask, because I have only the promo CD without lyrics.) Is it important for you to tell and interpret what and why you choose for the lyrics?
On the back of your promo CD there is a short summary in English explaining who Knut Hamsun was. That summary is also on the CD for sale. Inside the booklet the poems we have chosen is written in Norwegian, but not in English, and there is no summary in English explaining the different poems. That was very easy to do with Åsmund, because that was an explainable story. It would be unfair to our listeners and to those interested in the poems if we were to interpret these poems ourselves. I believe in the subjective experience I get out of reading poems and listening to music, and some of that would disappear if I had an “answer” in advance.
The main reason for us to do these English summaries, one way or another, is the fact that we sell more records outside Norway than within, and we are extremely happy for the interest shown in us and our culture.
Do you think your music is evolving alongside the lyrical themes? Is there some direct dependency – is the chosen theme also the basic condition of how the album will sound and how Lumsk will continue musically?
Perhaps I repeat myself here (see the answer to your first question), but of course, the theme of the lyrics will always be a very important factor in how our music evolves. As I said we have already started looking for the theme for our next album, and I have a feeling it will be something quite different. Again. And of course this means that our music will evolve into something different than last time. But, I don’t know. And, as I said… I’m not sure I want to know.
How are Hamsun’s life and his nazi tendencies currently judged in Norway? Does it have some impact to the interpretation and reception of his work? What was, in your opinion, the reason of this mistake in his life? Btw, it is very piquant that in general Norwegian people is considered as very brave in the anti-nazi fight during the war.
This debate has been going on here in Norway since the Second World War. The tendency today however is that Knut Hamsun’s work is among the very best Norway has to offer and his political tendencies right before and during WW2 has been forgiven by most Norwegians (or at least most Norwegians are able to separate his political views from his writing). Perhaps there are a few people who lived during the war that still have some problems with his work.
Through the years there have been many different explanations on why Hamsun meant what he meant and did what he did. Some says it was the actions and thoughts of a very old and stubborn man. Lumsk have chosen to focus on Hamsun’s poetry, his collection “Det Vilde Kor” from 1904, and therefore we will let others speculate in the political views of Knut Hamsun. There has been written a lot of biographies trying to explain it, and Hamsun himself has written a book about it himself (“Paa Gjengrodde Stier”). For those interested in his life I would suggest Ingar Sletten Kolloen’s two books “Svermeren” and “Erobreren”. I’m not sure if they have been translated. And of course I would recommend reading Hamsun’s novels.
You have always very stylish and idiomatic artwork for your booklets. The last one is a bit fairytaleish, but my first impression was that it reminds very much a secession style (art nouveau, jugendstil). Was it your intention? Later a realized that the Hamsun’s poetry was written just in the period of secession...
Ah! You are the first one to discover that one. The cover is, as you say, drawn and painted with inspiration from this period. The artwork and ornaments on the cover is very typical for the art nouveau style, and when our cover designer, Per Spjøtvold, first introduced us to his ideas he showed us pictures and paintings from this period. And I must say he has done an absolutely fantastic job on the cover and booklet!
If we return to the reality of myths and sagas – what is in your opinion still up-to-date in these stories and their message? Which of the virtues and qualities represented in these sagas are most inspiring for you and worthy for the men in 21st century?
I think one of the most important things we can learn from these old myths and sagas is to respect nature and the earth we all share. Our knowledge of nature and what’s happening around us today is enormous compared to the reality these stories represent. But still we seem to have forgotten one important thing on the way: If we exploit and even destroy Mother Nature, she will eventually get so tired of us that she closes her eyes and say: “Good night all people. Good nigh forever.” And I can imagine the smile on her face when she wipes the last man off her chin. That is actually the essence in many of the old Norwegian tales. You have to be respectful towards trolls, humans, trees, bees, cockroaches, princesses (especially them), creatures of the underworld, birds; everything. I don’t think we should go out there pretending to be heroes of ancient times, but we should listen to the voices surrounding us. Not the voices on television, the voices of great leaders or the voice of some God, but the small voices; the ones that really matter. We can start listening to our own voice too. That’s a good place to start, and it’s the one that matters the most. And perhaps someone will listen to it as well.
Are you very nostalgic about the ancient times, about the Norwegian past? Would you like to return to these times, or in the contrary, you prefer to bring some ideas and culture from these times to the modern era?
I can only speak for myself on these matters, but I can’t say I feel nostalgic about the Norwegian past, but I’m very proud of it. And also, I think it’s very interesting to see what lies behind us in history, and what events in the past have made the present possible, and made the present what it is. Just like I feel it’s very important to protect not only our native language, but all native languages around the world, I feel it’s equally important to be aware of, and try to protect our history, and that what makes us who we are. Here in Norway there is a tendency, and I guess you can see the same in all countries trying to develop the modern, capitalistic democracy, that old traditions and beliefs are fading, and many forgotten. International, especially American traditions are more and more present in Norway (not only Norway, but in many parts of the Western world) today, and this is a development that only increases in speed, especially since the technology of communication has evolved at such an enormous speed. Halloween is a good example. There is no old tradition for celebrating that day here. But when it was introduced some years ago it was through an enormous commercial campaign. And it’s very sad to see, in my opinion, that this commercialism of culture and tradition is actually undermining traditions and culture itself. Perhaps I’m a bit too provoked to see anything but my own nose in these matters, but it doesn’t seem to go in the direction I would want it to go.
But when all that is said, I must add that there are a lot of old traditions still present in Norway today, and I hope we are able to hold on to them in the coming generations.
How do you see the relationship between let’s say folklore and metal/rock (generally and also concretely in your music)? Is it for you a symbiosis, a fusion, or maybe a succession, a direct influence? What is your explanation of the fact that metal fans like so much the elements and inclusion of folklore in this hard genre?
Personally I’m not very fond of the folk metal term. I think folk music and metal are two genres that limit each other, if you see what I mean? I really enjoy elements of metal, elements of folk music, elements of rock, you name it, but in my opinion the result of that mixing of genres is either good music, or music I don’t like personally, and therefore not bother listen to. Perhaps it sounds very simple, but I really dislike being categorized as this and that, suddenly finding Lumsk in the same genre as bands I feel we have nothing in common with, and bands I don’t like listening to myself. In my opinion there is a contradiction right there. Labelling music is contributing to removing the subjective experience you have as a listener, and in my opinion it’s subjectivity and honesty it’s all about, metal or not. When I write music and record and release it, I offer a musical (and lyrical) experience you have to interpret in your own way. I can’t tell you what to think, what to feel. All I can do is make sure my music is subjective and honest enough to make you think or feel. There are so many artists or bands that leave nothing to the listeners, no excitement, no challenges and no imagination. I often get awfully provoked by main stream radio-friendly blabbering music. It sometimes feels like they’re doing it on purpose. They are out to get us poor people really interested in the fascinating universe of music. But then again… I can see that most people disagree with me. Or perhaps they don’t know, just like me, what to do about it, just accepting the fact as it is. Maybe they don’t care? I don’t know, and perhaps I don’t want to know either. But I know one thing I can do about it. I can go out there and buy the records I like, and in that way show my appreciation for, and secure the existence of music as art.
Why metal fans seem to like this inclusion of folklore and history you are talking about I have no good answer to. But we experience when we play concerts that many metal fans are very open minded towards our music, even though it’s not metal at all times, and they are really interested in trying to understand what’s offered to them through the music. I’ve always been fascinated by the past, and I think a lot of metal fans are too. There is not much mystery I can find in Norway today, but there is a lot of mystery to be found if we go back in time and try to imagine what it must have been like. For instance, I’m not very scared of trolls when I’m in the mountains, but it’s very, very fascinating to imagine that several hundred years ago, people really believed in these creatures. In Norway there are a lot of stories about places you can visit and see today that supposedly were the work of trolls. And even today some people put a bowl of “grøt” at Christmas Eve in the barn to please “fjøsnissen”, an old and not very friendly version of the international and modern Santa Claus. But if you let him have that bowl of food, he would usually leave you alone. And if I try to draw a conclusion from this, imagination is, and has always been, a very important part of metal, or music in general. And of course, the hard and heavy sound of metal is excellent if you want to describe these rather nasty creatures musically.
Do you draw a lot of melodies, arrangements or inspiration directly from the traditional songs?
Ever since I’ve been born my parents, my grandparents, teachers and radio- and television-stations have fed me with traditional Norwegian music. So I would say the traditional aspect of our music is more like a tonal language than direct inspiration, if there’s a difference between inspiration and musical language, of course. Except for the very short intro to Åsmund Frægdegjevar, all music and all arrangements are our own. So I think you can say that the traditional musical feel in our music comes very natural. And the lyrics we use are also a big inspiration and a big contributor to the traditional music-feel found in our music.
I also hear some influences of 70’s rock. Is my impression right? What means for you this music and period?
I’ve listened to a lot of rock from that era, and I guess that is very possible to hear in the music and arrangements I make for Lumsk. I think many of the bands from especially the early period of the 70’s did a lot of exciting things, mixing rock with folk music and jazz, classical music and so on. I think the golden years of progressive rock contain a lot of musical treasures. I’m not sure these bands are a direct influence, but at least we share some of the influences. It’s very interesting to do orchestrated arrangements in a band setting, also adding traditional and acoustic instruments. Some of the songs of Lumsk are much orchestrated. Listen to for instance “Svend Herlufsens Ord, part I – IV” on our new album, and “Allvis” on our previous one.
You had some line-up changes. If I compare the line-up of first and third album, it is almost 3 people. How did it influence the musical face of Lumsk? Mainly how important was the change of female vocalist and which new techniques, vocal shades and emotions did bring Stine Mari to your songs?
As I said first in this interview I think all our line-up changes have had a positive effect on the band. It’s refreshing and inspiring to work with new musicians, even though it takes some time to get to know each other both personally and musically. Vibeke, who did the vocals on our first album, had done mostly country music actually before joining Lumsk. I personally think she did a great job on the first album, and when she quit the band some time after the release and some touring, we wondered what to do. We did an audition in the recording studio we uses, and Stine was one of the hopeful ones. We immediately heard that this was going to be our woman so to say, and she has done a great job for us, and, I would say, brought a new element into the band with her classical background.
If you sum up, review and appraise the three albums of Lumsk, so “quo vadis”? Do you see yet some general tendencies in your evolution? What is your musical goal, what would you like to reach?
First of all I would say that it appears as though we are a few steps ahead of the people hired to have an opinion on our records, a “professional” opinion. Many critics seem to be confused concerning the musical direction we are taking at the moment. As for ourselves, we have been working very hard continuously since our first record was released, so it’s easier for me to see every single step we have taken than it is for “outsiders” to see. You know, the process from “Ormin Lange” on our first record to “Svend Herlufsens Ord” on our new one has taken almost, if not more than six years. And that is a lot of line-up changing, rehearsing, live playing, trying and failing, composing, thinking, arguing… you name it! As for what direction we are taking musically from here I have no idea, but I’m really looking forward to it.
And you ask for my musical goal… I really don’t know anymore. I’ve reached a lot of them already: I have released three records, I have played concerts, in my opinion some of them in front of a whole lot of people, I’ve got people out there interested in listening to the music I make and I have the opportunity of playing together with all these magnificent musicians, both “family” and “guests” so to speak. It sometimes feels like that; one big and occasionally happy family, hehe. It would have been great to do this on a full-time basis of course, but I really, really can’t complain. I have achieved a lot, and for the moment, I have the opportunity to continue doing it. Thank you all who made and make this possible!
Martin (Spark mag., Czech republic)
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